Islamic logic
Need I say more?
UPDATE:
It has been brought to my attention that the above picture has been photoshopped and is NOT representative of reality. Thanks to Renate for pointing this out. There is nobody but me and a case of shoddy source-critique to blame for this. The actual picture can be seen here:
Not much better.
posted by Henrik at 8:05 AM
11 Comments:
Convoluted logic seems to be their speciality. They have their heads so far in the sand (or somewhere else the sun doesn't shine) that they wouldn't recognize the truth if it bit them in the face.
D´OH!
Im removing it asap.
As to "end racism":
How is "Behead those who insult islam" any better than "Behead those who say islam is violent"?
Also, how does an american photoshopping an image "prove" anything about why a paper publishes drawings?
You seriously need to bruch up on reality.
Does the koran telling you that humans were created from clotted blood "prove" that that is so, too?
Henrik
End racism:
How do you get from an american photoshopping a picture to "people" wanting to stop nowhere to insult islam?
If you can extrapolate from one man (or woman) to the entire western world, how is it any worse when some people extrapolate from the actions of thousands of moslems - fex commiting genocide in the name of islam - to that all moslems do so?
You are enraged over other people doing the very same thing you do yourself.
That is called hypocrisy.
Henrik
End racism:
How is your being hypocritical "proving" that others are so?
You do realize that you make no sense?
Henrik
Oh really? The prisons are "filled" with the likes of Zündel?
How many besides him can you mention?
And that is besides the point that Zündels trial is ongoing.
Henrik
Irving hasnt been convicted, either.
So you are still at zero.
Henrik
Zündel was a foreign citizen consorting with indigenous elements involved in terrorism, and actively involved in creating the ideological backdrop for them.
It is any country´s right to expel such people.
What has the editor of Jyllands-Posten done other than publishing drawings?
Henrik
End racism:
When deported, citizens of a foreign country are automatically deported back to their own country. What other country can you have taking them? This question is so basic, that your "outrage" boggles the mind.
Germar Rudolf is in prison, but Jürgen Graf isnt. Faurisson has, to my knowledge, not been in prison, either. Feel free to correct me, though.
So we are at a whopping one person in prison. But let us grant you all the names you have mentioned: six. Doesnt seem to me as if the prisons are "filled" with them.
About the 6.000.000 figure - it isnt "holy". The historical consensus is, that the number is around 5,7 million (in that regard, it is actually the holocaust deniers - and you - inflating the number). The more research is done into this, the more the number is refined - upwards or downwards, according to the evidence.
As to questioning the number, that isnt the problem. The problem is denying genocide, the murder of millions having happened.
The argumentation is the same with holocaust-denial as with racism: if there is one victim, it is a simple crime. If it is an entire group, it is worse.
The same is the argumentation for genocide being a crime apart from a simple series of murders.
As to whether people want to see holocaust denial as a crime, oppinions differ.
Denmark, for example, has no law against holocaust denial.
Which again makes your accusations against "the west" baseless.
Henrik
"For having questioned the holy 6,000,000 figure."
No. Countless numbers of historians do that every day. I have done so myself. The difference is, that some people take all evidence into account and end up at around 5,7 million dead during the Holocaust. Others cherry-pick the evidence to end up with as low a number as humanly possible.
"Rudolf, Faurisson, Graf have all been persecuted by their respective governments".
Actually not. They have been prosecuted under the law. By the judicial establishment, not any governments.
"I do not see the Jyllands-Posten editor and cartoonist being put on trial by the state".
Of course not. The judicial first review any case to see whether there is enough evidence to base a trial on. The case has already been reviewed by the state prosecutor, and he found nothing to base a case on. That was appealed, and currently, it is being reviewed by the prosecutor of the realm.
Someone has also filed a charge of blasphemy against him. That case is being reviewed currently, also.
Rudolf, Faurisson and Graf wouldnt have been prosecuted under Danish law, btw, at least depending on their questioning of the Holocaust being their only action.
"I can name a hundred more names, so don't you give me that BS about prisons not being full of them".
Hundred people dont fill up a prison, either.
But do give me their names. Just so we can see that you are not just full of hot air.
"We all know that the Judeofascists have made a crime out of questioning the holocaust".
Actually no, we dont know that. We known that all the laws in question in the countries in question (among whom Denmark is not) were passed by elected parliaments. Not judeo-fascists, whatever that is.
If you have a problem with the laws, create a party, run in the next election, and try to get into parliament. Then make your own laws.
"I don't see the Judeofascists make a crime of the denial of the Armenian holocaust, for example".
Presupposes that your conspiracy theory holds water.
Laws are passed in democracies because the elected parliaments see a need. For the countries in question, the penalising of the denial of this historical fact is probably because these countries were involved in it (the Holocaust) during WWII in one way or another. Thus, they saw a need to forestall a repeat performance.
None of them were involved in the Armenian genocide, and thus havent seen a need to forestall any such thing in their countries.
But of course that is only my reasoning, not theirs.
"On the contrary, they are at the forefront of denial of that holocaust".
Now you are reaching. Badly.
"Of course, you will now appeal to "freedom of speech" to "explain" Judeofascists' behaviour".
Why would I try to explain what imaginary creatures act like in your fantasies?
"Don't forget the death threats that David Cole - the Jewish Revisionist - received from Judeofascists".
That he CLAIMED he received. I have seen nothing to substantiate this, and given his general.....shall we say lacking credibility, I see no reason not to discount his claims.
"Did Cole's country investigate the death threats?"
I wouldnt know. Why dont you ask him?
"I guess anyone who questions the holycost does not deserve to be alive and so does not deserve an investigation when he/she receives a death threat - or a letter-bomb".
It is a general indication of people knowing they have a weak case when they try to make up sinister viewpoints they can blame their opponents for.
Why dont you just stick to the debate?
Food for thought: You are victimizing yourself in the very same way you accuse the Jews of victimizing themselves. "OOOOH, we are SO persecuted, and people are acting SO mean against us".
Consider why nobody is taking your views seriously.
Henrik
It proves that people would stop nowhere to defame Islam and attack Muslims. It also shows why people like me hate the West.
Since you insist on making this point, how many newspapers and tv stations in muslim countries have published unfair or inflammatory content about Israel, christianity, the west, or "infidels"? Here's the a brief summary.
Of course, whenever the west is insulted, we deserved it. Why haven't Muslim countries apologized for these outrages? Despite these continued offenses, are we rioting, burning embassies, threatening journalists, etc?
If you can't see this hypocrisy, then I pity you.
End Racism
I am really weirded out by your attitude. We can do a tit for tat all night but it does not change anything about the Irreconcilables of radical Islam. Osama bin Laden has explicitly said that he wants to recreate the Caliphate as the first step of taking over the world. He has said explicitly that he wants to kill, forcibly convert to Islam, enslave or make second class citizens all who oppose him. The Muslims out there have been mostly silent in condemning his goals.
You should understand that images like the one at the top make it appear that most Muslims agree with him. What are we to make of this type of behavior? Are we to sit idly by and allow ourselves to lose our freedom or worse become slaves? Why do you feel that our fear is unjustified when we are confronted day after day by ugly images like the above? Fear begets hatred. That is just the way it goes. A real Christian hates the behavior not the person who does it. Admittedly there are not too many real Christians anymore, but that is the theory.
By throwing the race card (your tag name), you are saying that we hate members of Islam because of your race. I don't think that is exactly true. Everything I have seen leads me to believe that most people in the U.S. are frightened that they will be going about their daily lives and suddenly some splodey dope will detonate a bomb in their midst. In America people like to think they have control of their lives. With that loss of control comes fear and hatred addressed to the people who advocate such behavior.
If your position is that America has it coming because of... fill in the blank. Again, we can do tit for tat all night long. The major question should be: Is it correct behavior to kill women and children in the name of Islam in order to exact revenge on the West for doing these real or imagined wrongs against Muslims?
If you then come back and say that we have done that as well (killed women and children of Islam), then I have to point out that I do not believe that America intends to kill noncombatants on purpose. If you then say that there is no difference between unintended casualties and intended casualties, I have to disagree.
The major thrust of your comments is that the fear of Islam is unjustified and the hatred engendered by that fear of Islam is unjust. Why? If the fear was from paranoia (unjustified by the facts on the ground), then you would have a case that the U.S. has entered this war because of racism.
All of the above is beside the point. What are you going to do about the problem of the West's perception of Islam being violent, barbaric and basically evil? Osama bin Laden is the face of Islam we see. The marchers with their hate filled signs are all we see. The daily drum beat of beheadings and destruction of holy sites in Iraq do not allow us to feel that you are a Religion of Peace. The screams of Iranian President Amadingdong that he will incinerate Israel and the West with nuclear fire do not make us feel that your leaders are sane.
Racism is irrational fear of the Other. What you are seeing is rational fear based on the information before us. Dude, get a grip. Your hurt feelings are blinding you to the fact that your side is not doing a good job of stopping the hate.
If you come back and say that the West is not showing enough respect to Islam, I've got to ask, "Why should we?" What have you done to cause us to respect you, when we are frightened that you will destroy our way of life and force us to convert to Islam? Those may not be your goals, but they sure are the goals of the Irreconcilables.
I recognize that it looks like the West is doing the same thing. It looks like we plot, salivate, lust to attack Islam and convert you to our way of life. The truth is that because we cannot get you to stop frightening us, we are doing what we did with the Germans and the Japanese. If you can come up with a way where we stopped interfering in your life and you stopped interfering with our lives, then I would be all for it.
I would also point out that you do not do your case much good. You come across as a paranoid, bitter, whiny individual looking for pity. If that offends you, I cannot help you. Dude, as I said before, get a grip. If you are here to register a complaint and count coup, then forget it. The West is frightened. When the Arab street screams for blood, nothing happens. Your governments do not go to war against the West. When the American street cries for blood, a huge amount of blood flows onto the Arab street. If you want to stop that, start with yourself and realize that you are not helping. Screaming about how badly the West has treated you does not by our standards make a case for violent retaliation. To most American, your hatred of our cultural intrusion into your life is a cry of an addict saying that he cannot stop himself so he will kill his pusher.
Come up with a way to stop the Irreconcilables. Come up with a way where we can live together without attacking each other short of us kowtowing to your every demand.
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